Re: [Harp-L] valve problems! need help!


On Jan 3, 2010, at 2:40 PM, Michelle LeFree wrote:

Vern Smith contributes:
You guys just can't bear to let a fellow keep a proprietary secret.

I clamp half of a one inch wide strip of Ultrasuede between two pieces of very flat steel with many 10-32 bolts pulling it together. There has to be over a thousand PSI of pressure. Then I cook the whole thing for about half an hour in an oven at about 250 degF. Then I apply fabric guard waterproofing to the half that is not compressed. Finally I cut the strip into valves. See...nothing to it.

The compressed part is thinner, stiffer, and springier. The uncompressed part retains its soft texture and cannot become wet. I claim that it is the perfect valve. Used against a waxed reedplate, it eliminates sticking, popping and rattling. If you don't believe it, send for some free samples and try them for yourself. Then report your results...good or bad...on Harp-L Hey...they work for me.

Now that you have the "formula" and can make them for yourselves, will anyone be interested in buying them from me???

There, SSSOB, goes my dream of becoming rich and famous as the valve king of the chromatic universe!

Vern


As always, Vern displays his sense as the superb mechanical engineer he is. Thank you once again, Vern for your generosity in sharing your remarkable skills and experience.

Personally, I've been waiting for PT Gazell or Brendan Power to chime in on this thread, as they are both expert Ultrasuede valvers. World travelers that they are, I suspect that they are incommunicado right now. In their absence, I'd like to humbly mention what I've learned directly from PT, whom I think learned from Brendan. Interestingly, in contrast to Vern's method, PT doesn't go to the trouble of heating and compressing the Ultrasuede or treating it with fabric guard. Nor does he wax his reed plates as far as I know.

I have been treating my ultra suede for years with a can of water repellant I got at the Walmart and used on the canvas Bimini canopy that was on my old sailboat. For pressure I was using 120 lbs of barbell weights and a golf cart battery (180? total), Certainly not as much pressure as Vern.

When I learned to half valve from PT several years ago he was using a tiny dab of DAP Weldwood Contact Cement to glue the tip of the valve over the rivet end of the reed slot. He then cut his valves a tad short of the opposite end of the reed slot, leaving about 1 - 1.5 mm or so of the end of the reed slot exposed. I don't know why he does that, so I haven't felt the need.

If, and I say if, the valve would even have an errant thought of sticking, the little bit of breeze blowing by the tip of the valve will discourage it from doing so. Also, it is sometimes a toss of the dice as to whether you will get a clear note from a blown DOWN valved reed. Sometimes they have jet lag. The little space seems to give the reed a jump start. Catching a note already ON the bend (without walking into it) can be challenging...for some.

For glue I have always used very thick nail polish that had been tossed out by the 4 girls in the house. To apply, I use a hypodermic that was left over from my fibreglass work. I also have jewelry cement. It comes in a tube with an almost hypodermic end that has a needle for a closure. The drop it dispenses is pin head sized. I need TWO dabs for an ultra suede valve as one is needed to 'seal
the fabric. I also scratch plated reed plates.

One practical tip I can offer is that I have found that cutting the strips of Ultrasuede with a roller-type fabric cutting wheel avoids problems I have encountered in cutting them with scissors.

Right on. Even my very sharp barbers scissors won't do. Mama Cass is a quilter, cross stitcher, and etc., and I use her rotary cutter. Since I have a sharpener for the blades, and have been sharpening them for years, she doesn't mind.

Cutting them with scissors can tend to impart a twist across the short dimension of the valve and a slight curl to the long dimension.

Yes, you are torqueing the material. In the tool world, scissors are classed as '2 wedges' and work by opposite shear directions. Not a good deal for thick fabrics.

Using a fabric cutting wheel doesn't do that, so while you are at the fabric store, you might think about picking up a wheel-type fabric cutter. Using one also makes cutting perfectly uniform widths of the material a snap. I cut long strips of the material holding the cutter against a steel rule and then cut the strips to the desired lengths for each of the reed slots.

The cutters look just like a miniature pizza cutter. Except pizza cutters get dull when used on a pan. I use a mat.

I follow PT's valving method precisely except that I cut my reeds so that they do cover the end of the reed slot. I play my set of half-valved Suzuki Promasters a lot and have not experienced ~any~ problems with the valves sticking or curling. I don't use any special method of warming the harps with a heating pad or the like; I just warm them in the palm of my hand for a couple minutes before I start playing like I do with any harmonica. (I think the Promaster metal combs help conduct the heat through to the reed plates.) It just seems to me that the porous nature of the Ultrasuede material is part of the magic that makes it ideal for valving harmonicas. Doing anything to change that seems counterproductive to me.

Of course, I valve mostly the chromos. For diatonics, I only use one valve. The #5 draw.

Of course, my experience valving with Ultrasuede is limited to half- valving diatonics, but I don't feel there would be any particular or unique issue that would make it any different with chromatics. Bottom line, with all due respect to Vern's sage advice, I'd first try using plain, carefully cut strips of Ultrasuede to valve your chromatics. No doubt, Vern's method is sound, but IMHO going to the length of making a special compression jig and baking the material to compress it and then treating it with fabric guard may not be necessary.

Maybe, but I think (and I'm not presuming to think for Vern), that Vern is mainly concerned that the longer valves common to the chromo ad also the most troublesome ones need a little extra bracing or they are too floppy over that length. On diatonics, the reeds seem to be shorter for a given pitch. Except the very low keys..of course.

I am presently studying Hypalon. It is a fabric/plastic with a waffle pattern that is used to repair rigid inflatable dinghies. I also have a few sheared rubber valves I got from Joe Picarrilli. Those are nice, They tend to 'cup' when sheared. I guess it all depends on the shearing.

I usually make it a rule to avoid even mentioning my name in the same discussion with PT Gazell's, but plain old Ultrasuede seems to work fine for us. :-)

At least that's the way I see it, 

You see pretty da** good. :)
smo-joe

Michelle

PS: PT or Brendan, please speak up if you can add anything or if I've misconstrued anything here.







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